October 2001: Get Dark Age of Camelot and install it. Shortly
after I make a scout! Man he is fun. People say I'm crazy and don't want him in
groups much but I hear they are great in RVR and he has stealth to make up for
his weaknesses in PVE combat. Either way there is only about 4 of us on the
server. Ding level 2!
=============================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.34 Release Notes
November 1, 2001
=============================================
PROTECTING AGAINST ARCHERS
We've heard of a lot of confusion and dismay about the relative power of archer
classes in PvP, especially against Mages. For those who aren't aware, "Bladeturn"
spells (which Theurgists, Wardens, and Runemasters receive) work against arrows
(as well as any other type of non-magical attack as well). Bladeturn spells
nullify an attack - and can be cast on any player. It would behoove a group
going into PvP to have bladeturn protection spells on all their spellcasters.
A NOTE ON SHIELD USE
If you are a shield user, you have always been able to block arrows with your
shield; however, we never properly documented how to do this. Here's the scoop:
To use a shield to block arrows:
a) Enter combat mode
b) Face in the direction of the archer
c) To dramatically increase you block chances, use the Engage skill, if you have
it.
The base chance to block a same-level archer is 30%, if your shield
specialization is maxed for your level this can reach 60%. Quality and condition
act as modifiers to this chance, if your skill-based chance was 50%, your Shield
had a quality of 90% and a condition of 88%, then your actual chance to block
would be 40%.
Using the Engage skill gives a base 95% chance to block arrows fired by your
target. How many archers you can block attacks from is determined by the size of
the shield, the same as Melee targets. You can Engage one archer and still get
normal blocking chances against other archers you are facing, if you have a
Medium or Large shield. Essentially, Engage works exactly the same against
arrows as it does against melee attacks.
* Hey, we got some attention. Sure be glad when they put in
climbing, longshot, volley and tracking. Everyone says they may be
given at 50 spec so I'm going to max longbow so I can get longshot and
volley and I am going to max stealth so ill get climb and tracking to.
=============================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.35 Release Notes
November 8, 2001
=============================================
- Archer classes now have a chance of becoming visible when they
nock their arrow. The way it worked up until now is that archers would always be
invisible if they were using stealth until they fired their bow. Now, a skill
check is performed when they "nock" their arrow. If they fail the
check, they become visible. The chance to become visible is based on their
specialization in Stealth. On normal (i.e. NOT critical shots), if they are 50%
specc'ed in stealth, they will have a 50% chance of becoming visible; if they
are 100% specc'ed, they will have a 100% chance of remaining hidden. On Critical
Shots, the chance is the same as a normal shot, minus 20% - so an archer max
specced in stealth will have an 80% of remaining hidden after nocking his bow.
Please note that in all cases, an archer will become visible once the shot is
actually fired.
* Nothing to worry about, i'm sure that wont affect us that
much. (The reality of this patch though is that with over 100% spec
stealth, 63 skill at level 50, I unstealth 2 out of 3 times commonly. So it was
more like 30% chance to remain stealthed, not 80%.)
=============================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.37c Release Notes
December 4, 2001
=============================================
- Added "nearsight" line to Runemaster Runes of Suppression list (Suppress Sight), Matter Manipulation (Cab matter spec,
Encrust Eyes) list, and Eldritch Shadow Control list (changed old dex debuff line to Negate Coordination, and Negate Sight
line is the nearsight spell). Nearsight reduces the range at which spells can be cast and arrows fired by a percentage. This
is a "harrying" type spell that should give casters a non-damaging counter to archers.
* Minor setback. I'm sure they will add something to archers to
make up for it. I can still follow enemy troops when they invade us so no
biggie....
=============================================
The Legendary Good News and Bad News
from Sanya Thomas
2001-12-06 18:58:20
=============================================
There is a bug with archery. I want to make it clear that no reduction in damage was intended, and that the problems a
limited number of archers are experiencing are in no way intentional. The trouble is, the problem is intermittent, and
therefore extremely difficult to pin down. The problem seems to be that sometimes arrows just... don't land. We cannot
duplicate the problem with artificially created characters, nor can we always duplicate it with live characters. A whole
bunch of you volunteered your characters (thank you!!!) with the problem for us to test, and even that didn't end up helping.
For instance, one character we test drove had the problem. We logged her out, went to get another programmer to take a look,
logged her back in... and the problem was gone.
* Wasn't intended, but it happened and was never fixed. In 50 levels my damage never increased but the fumbles and
misses did. At 50 base longbow fumbling 3 times in a row has happened more than
once. In fact at level 50 I shoot for less than I did at level 45. I watched our crit shot on a level 1 gray mob go from 1250 to 1100 to 970 even though I went up in
levels and all the while it was never mentioned in the patch notes that
PVE was being nerfed.
======================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.39 Release Notes
Tuesday, December 18, 2001
======================================
- You'll now see arrows fly through the air when an archer fires at a target. When the arrow hits the target, the arrow
sticks in the target for a couple of seconds letting the target know the rough direction from which the arrow was fired.
* Im still having fun. Wonder why the arrows stick in them even when I miss and
it is blade turned though...
======================================
Last Night's (12/18) Region Crashing Issue
from Sanya Thomas
2001-12-19 14:20:43
======================================
This patch, we introduced code that allowed archers to be interrupted after they had drawn and held the arrow, but before
they actually fired. Last night, if another player happened across an archer at that point in the firing process and
successfully interrupted him, the region would crash. This is why some servers seemed to have more crashes than others, yet
some servers experienced no problems at all. It was NOT related to server load, or population.
* Whoa, didn't see that in the patch notes anywhere. No wonder I am getting interrupted
all the time by these goblins now...
====================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.44 Release Notes
Tuesday, January 29, 2002
====================================
- We removed range restriction from pets in Defend mode. Now they can go after archers autonomously.
* Eeek, now they chase me all the way across the zone and back to the portal keep
from crimthain even when I stealth.
====================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.45 Release Notes
February 7, 2002
====================================
- The Detect Hidden ability was changed to increase the range at which Nightshades, Shadowblades, and Infiltrators (the only
classes that receive Detect Hidden) can detect other hidden players.
* My archer spent 1274 skill points in stealth and got the
ability to hide. Assassins spend way less in stealth and receive safe-fall,
climbing, detect hidden, etc. In fact they gave him "Safe Fall V" for
a week and took it back. Already archers were paying a high cost with
little return to be able to scout for the realm. Adding 'Detect Hidden' to
reveal archers was fine with me, we still had a chance.
- In our buff system overhaul of last version, we introduced a bug that we must take steps to fix. The effect of Quickness
buffs increased overall player damage per second far more than same-level strength and dexterity buffs (thus removing the
need to have strength and dexterity buffs in some cases). So, we've reduced the effectiveness of quickness buffs by 10-15%
(depending on the level of the spell). This change will affect all melee and archer characters who have Quickness buffs cast
on them. You will notice that you attack a little slower now than you used to when your Quickness is buffed.
ARCHER CHANGES
We are making several archer changes in this version. In short, archers are too powerful in RvR combat, but feel they don't
have enough to offer in group-based monster hunting. We have spent a lot of time testing this in-house over the last week, as
well as analyzing player and tester feedback, and have come to the conclusion that
archers can kill higher-level players far
more easily than we ever intended. Currently, low-40's archers can two-shot kill 50th level mages (who are red or purple to
the archer), which is far too powerful. The testing also found that archers were not as effective fighting monsters in groups
as we designed the classes. This version takes steps to correct both these problems.
- Archers no longer receive a to-hit bonus against sitting opponents. Low level
archers could previously crit shot much
higher level sitting targets - ones they normally could not hit at all if the target was standing.
- We've lessened the damage that Critical Shots do against higher-level player targets. Against same-level or lower enemy
players, your critical shots will do exactly the same damage they always have. However, against higher-level enemy players,
your damage will be less, depending on how much higher the player is than you. Please note that this change does not affect
critical shot damage versus monsters at all - the change only effects RvR combat.
* 5 stated Archer nerf's in 1 patch, and at least one that wasn't.
This introduced the first known 'Stealth nerf" to the class. They said one
thing and did another. Please read the underlined and what one of the devs posted himself about the
patch. They contradict each other totally. The patch notes above said it didn't affect
damage versus monsters, The dev below said it was across the board. read:
"because damage on things below your level is already increased, compounding it with a higher CS multiplier for things below
your level was encouraging the one-shotting of greens and blues in RvR, and wasn't a significant factor in PvE viability.
Against blue con mobs, the multiplier was 2.3, so you lost 13% of your damage against blue cons on the initial shot.
Like all other specs, your bow spec is supposed to apply to your damage range, at ½ spec the range is 50%-100% of normal
damage (75% average), at 2/3 spec the range is 75-125% of nominal damage (100% average), at 100% spec it is 100-150% (125%
average). Spells work differently, but all melee damage works like that. Bow spec isn't supposed to affect the critical-shot
multiplier. It *does* currently. But it's not supposed to. We're not sure when it started working like that. We do know it
won't be for much longer.
The change in Quickness has had far more of an impact, by my testing (and came up at the last minute as something we had to
do). For a lot of players, it's meaning one less arrow they can shoot before the mob closes to melee range, and a lot of
people went 100% bow spec and shorted their melee. They can't use Styles to make up the difference the way someone with more
weapon training could. We were aware when we found and fixed that last Quickness issue that we would be impacting
Archer PvE, we're going to keep an
eye on it and if it needs buffed up, we'll do something for it.
- MahrinSkel"
* Ok, this is starting to get a bit old, leveling is getting tougher
to, can we lay off the
nerfs for a bit?
================================
Archer Bug Discovered
from Matt Firor
2002-02-07 19:14:24
================================
Since Sanya's much smarter than I and has left for the evening, I'm posting this notice. We've found a bug that causes
non-max specialized archers to do FAR less damage than they should be with Critical Shots against both monsters and enemy
players. If an archer is max-specialized in their bow skill, they probably wouldn't have noticed this, but anyone who was
less than max specced in bow is noticing right now that they are doing much less damage than they should be. Please note that
this bug affects Critical Shot only - not regular bow shots. We'll have this bug fixed and up on the live servers for you
tomorrow morning, and we apologize for the inconvienence this has caused.
* Now they attempt to draw attention off the crit shot nerf. They reduced our crit
shot across the board intentionally and now when confronted they say it is a
bug. I have 50 base longbow and am now hitting for 250 less damage on crit shots
against mobs. When we confronted them about it this was posted on the herald to
calm everyone down. The following day they put in a "Sugar pill" patch
that did absolutely nothing for our PVE damage. I logged on after the patch and
tested it and there was no difference. So did several other archer friends. When
asked further there was no comment. They successfully pulled off nerfing our bow
in RVR and PVE. My damage against a level 0 ( blue at level 1) mob went from
1250 damage to 970 and stayed there.
====================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.45C Release Notes
====================================
- Archers who did not max-specialize in Critical Shot were doing far less damage than they should have been when performing a
Critical Shot against monsters or enemy players. This has been fixed. Remember, however, in 1.45 we reduced in general the
amount of Critical Shot damage against higher-level enemies. This bug fix does not affect that change.
* Threw the dogs a bone. Nothing was changed. They reduced our crit shot across the board in PVE and RVR
then posted this as a bug. I had 50 longbow and my crit shot in PVE took a 20% hit. They DID NOT FIX IT. I hit for
less now at level 50 than I did at level 45 in PVE.
===================================
Friday Grab Bag
from Sanya Thomas
2002-02-08 19:39:35
===================================
Q: Why have archers been whacked with the nerf bat so hard?
A: Well, three things – one, barring the unforeseen that’s the last of the major
adjustments, and two, some of that nerf pain
was NOT on purpose, it was a bug (category two, by the definition of our priorities mentioned above) – see that patch note
marked 1.45C posted by Matt Firor early this morning. I’m really sorry about that. So is everyone here – that’s why we took
the servers down this morning to fix it.
And three, here’s a sample of my email: “Can you tell me how I am lvl 42 and totally buffed (I am an enh spec cleric) and ONE
Archer does over 1100 points of damage to me before I can take 10 steps? The guy did a crit on me for 599 points and then two
hits for approx 300 each. How in the world can Mythic justify that AND give them the speed to get away as well?” Well, I
really can’t say I blame the guy for being a little traumatized.
If you disagree with the disgruntled gentleman posted above, please send me your class (and if you aren’t an
archer I’ll
delete it, FYI, I have tons more emails like our poor cleric’s, I don’t need any more ;)), race, level, and spec point
distribution, and a **concise** list of reasons why Mythic is wrong. Use the header DISGRUNTLED ARCHER.
Well here is the 3 things:
1) that’s the last of the major adjustments
* Whoa, great. Maybe we can relax from here on out.
2) and two, some of that nerf pain was NOT on purpose, it was a bug (category two, by the definition of our priorities
mentioned above) – see that patch note marked 1.45C posted by Matt Firor early this morning. I’m really sorry about that. So is everyone here – that’s why we took
the servers down this morning to fix it.
* Discussed this above. This was just throwing the dog
a bone after they intentionally nerfed our bow shots versus monsters. The
patch did nothing. Months later the "Bug" still makes archers hit
for less. That "FAR less damage to enemy players..." statement
though did make me laugh.
3) Can you tell me how I am lvl 42 and totally buffed (I am an enh spec cleric) and ONE
Archer does over 1100 points of damage to me before I can take 10 steps? The guy did a crit on me for 599 points and then two
hits for approx 300 each. How in the world can Mythic justify that AND give them the speed to get away as
well?
* A level 42 is blue to a level 50. He got crit shot for 599
and then 2 more times for 300 each... What if it had been a 50 cleric smiting
a 42 archer? What about a 50 eldritch? Nerfing archers because they killed a blue con in 3
shots??? And what is this speed to get away stuff got to do with scouts
anyway???
======================================
Server Maintenance
from Sanya Thomas
2002-02-12 15:17:14
======================================
P.S. Thank you, archers! I've had a large number of responses, and I think just about every conceivable viewpoint is well
represented. Thank you all for your well-reasoned and polite commentary on such a passion-engendering topic. Now I have to
read through it all! So, please, no more DISGRUNTLED ARCHERS.
* What did they do for all the disgruntled archers that emailed Sanya? More
nerfs! Read on:
====================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.46 Release Notes
====================================
- Archers will no longer see tenths of seconds when readying arrows. We never intended archers to see their timer on such an
intimate level - it was initially set that way for balancing and debugging purposes in beta, and was never changed. Please
note that all other timers in the game (spell timers, ability timers, etc.) print in seconds, not tenths of seconds. PLEASE
NOTE THAT WE DID NOT INCREASE DRAW TIMES OR IN ANY WAY CHANGE DRAW TIMES IN THIS PATCH. We changed only the way that this is
printed to you.
* That "Never intended" line is becoming a classic now a days... The reason they removed it was because
they slipped in a nerf to lengthen archers draw times and they didn't document
it. Some say it was the changes made to buffs but as a scout I know better
because we don't get buffs and my draw time went up. It was another
"stealth nerf" they got caught on. Of course when I logged on my scout and saw
his draw time was 4.9s to fire and it had just been 4.4 we confronted them on it. So they in
response removed our ammo to catch them. The timer wasn't "harming" anyone and was very useful.
It was just a way of telling when they had tampered with something and was
embarrassing to them when faced with it.
=======================================
Dark Age of Camelot
2002-05-16 07:39:42
Version 1.50 Release Notes
=======================================
The "straw that broke the camels back" for many, They added the
passive realm skill "See Hidden" to all assassin classes effectively nullifying
archer stealth. Even with full spec stealth an archer can be seen at clip
range by a gray con assassin 15 levels below him with lower stealth. No chance to respec offered
either so they effectively stole 1274 skill points from me. Now we have scouts that cant scout. At level 50 with 63 stealth I have
gray con assassins waving to me and telling their friends to come gank me. They
see me at clip range and I cant seem them 10 steps away. 1274
skill points down the drain with nothing in return for it. And this came after
the "last of the major adjustments" were said to be over. After leading us
on for months they saved the worst for last. This totally redefined the
role of the scout from an intelligence gatherer into a support class with
stealth.
* Please note that while I agree with some of the change's made I feel it went
to far, you cant keep taking from and adding counter measures to a class but so
long. After 1.45 archers were already weak. Most of the archer nerfs did not even have "Archer" in the title. By adding things to various classes they
slowly took archers
part. You can successfully destroy a class by "adding" to another class. They:
======================================================
-
Gave 6 second stackable pulsing blade turn to others.
-
Gave pets the ability to chase archers from unlimited range.
-
Gave casters in each realm "Near sight" anti-archer spells.
-
Gave all casters self blade turn.
-
Gave Assassins "Detect Hidden" to see archers at
range.
-
Added 10 second delay to restealth.
-
Made it impossible to stealth while mezzed.
-
Increased draw times.
-
Increased fumbles. With 50 base longbow I often fumble
twice in a row and sometimes 3 in a row.
-
Increased misses.
-
Increased the chance to "unstealth" when nocking an arrow,
not firing. With 63 stealth 2 out of 3 times is the normal.
-
Added interruptions.
-
Reduced damage to sitting players.
-
Reduced damage to higher level players
-
Gave assassins 'See Hidden' on top of 'Detect Hidden' so they can see higher level archers regardless of stealth spec. It sets the archers level / stealth to 1.
-
Reduced bow damage in PVE and RVR by 20%. They didn't post this but one of the developers himself explained it.
======================================================
May 28, 2002: I'm level 50 now and after all their patches I have a Scout that
can no longer scout. Mythic totally redefined a scouts role in the game, they
are trying to "force them to group" as a support class now. He fumbles constantly with 50 base longbow, He misses a lot
and when he lands a shot it is usually blade turned. I come unstealthed 2 out of
3 draws and gray con assassins see me at clip range even though I am 15 levels
higher and have 63 stealth. They tell me to "Get a group" but groups still don't want me even in RVR as a wizard
is so much better. What does 50 stealth bring to a group? What a way to wrap up 8 months of playing a
scout. 40 days /played and it ends in complete frustration and anger. The
spec template I laid out months ago has now been destroyed along with the
character. I used my scout to scout with. Was a lot of fun in relic raids
to watch the enemies frontier entrances and report activity to the alliance.
Even after they nerfed my bow repeatedly I didn't really care because I still
felt "Needed". The alliance leader would often send me tells to go
check the wall or some spot so it gave me a "Job". I am no longer
needed....
8 months I built my character around this and even as a 50 scout with /40
days played I only have 175k RPS. Scouting was fun to me. Its what made me feel
that I had done my part of the raid. Now all is needed is one gray con assassin
in the enemy command chat to tell 200 players "There's a scout on the left
hillside". Changed overnight on a whim and then told to like it or leave
it... Ill leave it.
After 8 months what does this Scout recommend new comers do? What ever
you do, unless you are a sadist, DO NOT MAKE AN ARCHER ON DARK AGE OF CAMELOT. I
should have quit long ago but they kept throwing us a bone and telling us it was
over while in the background, little by little they ruined what was once a fun
class to play. Enough is enough. How can
you re-roll when the target is changing. I called them and canceled my subscription.
Slap... it's ok, we wont do it again... Kick... ooops, we didn't intend
that...
Stab... that one was an accident..... Slap... ok that's the last one.... Kick...
whoops one more... 16 times...
Mythic added "See Hidden" they said to "Force Archers to
group". But we dont have anything to bring to a group, Why are we now a group
class when many have 50 stealth? Players don't want a Scout in their group, PVE or RVR. Just
as it was in PVE they will choose:
- A minstrel for speed and stun
- A wizard for 2s nukes and root
- A cleric for stun or heals and buffs
- A theurgist for pulsing bladeturn or DDs and root
- A sorcerer for mez and lifetaps...
- A tank in plate to melee who shoots a faster xbow.
- A Friar who can help heal and buff and hit for 500 with his staff
Why on earth would a group want a Scout? Please don't say "True sight"
as they will laugh at you. A skill on a 30 minute timer is of no use to a group
in RVR and the cost of 10 realm ranks is ridiculous. The strength of a scout was that he could scout.
Used to they would say "go check the wall for us". But now they removed that. When you get
in a group and run up to some enemy players and assist the tank you don't get a
shot off with a 4s draw time. We are back in the same situation we were in PVE.
You know how we will get a group? Like this:
"That scout has been standing there for an hour looking for a group, I feel
sorry for him, lets add him..."
It is like letting your kid work 8 long months for a shiny new bicycle with
their hopes high and then at the end of 8 the months when it is paid for you
take it away because it is to nice for them. In return you give them nothing and
tell them to "Go play with your friends". Only they don't have
any because you have kept them solo their entire life....
In the words of another level 50 scout who I thought put it well:
It is ridiculous to work months to level to 50 and follow a skill template that you think will be effective and have it made useless by an update like the currently planned rp system. With no
way for characters to respec, it looks like a lot of folks have wasted their time, myself included. There is no way to hit this moving target and who wants to start over again to level up to 50(especially when the rules constantly change). When this update goes live I will immediately
cancel (not sell) my account and be more cautious with the next game I select. Mythic should be ashamed for their misleading and dishonest tactics. Time to lick my wounds and move on and learn from this frustrating experience with Mythic.
Reinn, 50 Scout
My thoughts and emails to Mythic when I canceled my accounts:
I made my "Scout" because I wanted to play a scout. To keep an
eye on enemy troops in the frontier and report back to the alliance. Maybe be a
backup melee in battles. Now 8 months later and 840 hours played you ruined my
main reason for choosing the class.
I adjusted to all the previous nerfs like the one where you nerfed our crit shot
across the board even in PVE, the one where you lengthened our draw times, when
you added bladeturn to all casters, when you added nearsight anti-archer spells,
when you increased our fumbles to 2 in 5 shots even with 50 base longbow, when
we unstealth 2 out of 4 times even with 50 base stealth on nocking an arrow.
But no, all that wasn't enough. You had to remove the very reason that I made a
scout in the first place. To scout enemy troops. To hide out at the milegate and
report the size of the invading army to the alliance. Now at level 50 with level
50 base stealth im sitting out there in the open and targetable. I have low
level assassins waving at me and telling their peers to come kill me. What is
the 1274 skill points I poured into this skill for? You have stolen the very
reason I made the character from me. To hell with respec, I want a damn "RECLASS",
roll me into an infiltrator so I can scout again.
You can take that "Hide in tall grass or behind a tree" and.... Dont
you realize what F8 does? You can say "casters and tanks dont get to
hide" well they also didnt put 1274 skill points into stealth did they?
This is your screwup, you designed a class and then later after many hit level
50 you change the very foundation of the character. Could you imagine if a
contractor building a house got started with a set of blueprints and then
switched to another set? You have successfully ruined what was a fun class to
play. You also removed my reason for paying you $52 per month. (Yes, me, my
wife, son and daughter all have accounts with you. 4 in total)
Im at the end of line. I hung on for months hoping the nerfs would end but they
dont... You just wont stop the nerfs. And even if you did I dont want to play
what you left me with. This was not what I leveled up. I have been with DAOC
since it went live and painfully watched my class get slowly and tactfully torn
apart. Some say it is better to not have had than to have and have it taken
away. This is true. This is my first experience with "depreciating
characters". On UO, on EQ on AC, my characters got better and better. Here,
worse and worse... After investing 8 months into it I feel cheated. The character I
have today is not the character that I created. Neither can he do what I
created him for, to "scout". As he grew in levels he grew weaker
and less versatile.
Sorry for the rambling but that is exactly how this level 50 scout on percival
feels about mythics game The Dark age of nerf-a-lot.
- Dixon 50 the scout that cant
I put this site up in frustration because the emails I sent to mythic were
ignored. Thanks Sanya. You now have a new "Fan Site". Each time I
posted a message somewhere about how I felt the post was locked or deleted just
angering me even more. It was like I was screaming and no one could hear me.
When I put the site up I had no idea it would get thousands of hits in a
few days. But afterwards I received so much email in response to it and I found
that I am not alone in the way that I feel here. A lot of the letters I received
are great stuff and it is a shame to leave them hidden. I added a feedback page
so all can post their thoughts and suggestions here for all to see. If you have
a suggestion for the site you can still email me at doc AT
gt7 DOT net.
When leaving feedback please note the reasons above as to why this site is
here. This site was created for archers to vent their frustrations over the last
8 months of mythic's treatment and based on the facts. It was created "By
an archer for archers". If you post here as a angry gray con caster
that got 1 shot by a archer 3 months ago and still have a chip on your shoulder
I will just remove your feedback. You are on our site now.
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